Promote Your Book Podcast with Cindy Hyde

Freedom: The Healing Process for Traumatic Events in Your Past with Phyllis Ann Larue

• Cindy Hyde - Author and Podcaster • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Imagine carrying the weight of past traumas and wondering if true freedom is ever within reach. Phyllis Ann Larue, author of "Freedom: The Healing Process for Traumatic Events in Your Past," graced us with her presence, unraveling the emotional tapestry of liberation and the ripple effect one person's freedom can have on others.

Together, we ventured through our personal narratives, touching on the divine twists of fate and the humility one feels when chosen to share profound healing. Phyllis, with her gentle wisdom, painted a vivid picture of how writing becomes more than just a craft - it's a vessel for change, a beacon for those navigating their way out of darkness.

As our conversation unfolded, we tackled the complexities of healing and forgiveness, and the roles they play in the aftermath of personal upheaval. I shared how Facebook became an unexpected sanctuary for one struggling soul, exemplifying the potential of social media as a force for good.

We dissected the grief process, acknowledging that emotions like shock, denial, anger, and isolation are not linear but an intertwined dance that requires grace and patience. This chapter of our discussion was a reminder that healing is not a destination but a journey, and that journey often requires a community, a hand to hold, and a safe space to unravel.

The final stages of our heartfelt exchange brought us to the transformative power of forgiveness and the road toward spiritual healing. We delved into the deeper aspects of Phyllis's work, including her impactful 90-day devotional, and the small yet significant steps one can take to achieve inner peace.

Ending our session with a prayer, we reached out to those bound by their past, affirming that freedom is not just a possibility, but a divine promise. Phyllis's insights and the promise of her book stand as a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the unwavering love that guides us all towards emancipation from our chains.

Find "Freedom: The Healing Process for Traumatic Events in Your Past" on Amazon.com
Freedom!!!: The HEALING Process for Traumatic Events in YOUR Past: LaRue, Phyllis Ann: 9781892324207: Amazon.com: Books

Connect with Phyllis on her Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/phyllis.larue

Schedule your author interview https://www.calendly.com/cindylhyde  

Thank you for listening to today's episode. We'd love to hear from you! Please like, share, and comment below. Your passion for books and their authors is the heartbeat of our community. I'm excited to hear your story next! Schedule your author interview at calendly.com/cindylhyde. It's a fantastic opportunity to spotlight your book! Until next time, keep those pages turning!

Cindy Hyde's Links: https://linktr.ee/cindylhyde
Hyde Virtual Agency: https://linktr.ee/hydevirtualagency
Cindy's Books: amazon.com/author/cindyhyde
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Kimberly Vega: KimberlyVega.me

Cindy Hyde:

Welcome to the Promote your Book podcast, your ultimate destination for all things literary. I'm Cindy Hyde, your host author and fellow book enthusiasts. Join me each week as we shine a spotlight on talented authors, including myself, exploring our journeys, our stories and the magic behind our books. Authors, here's why you should be excited about promoting your book on our podcast. Not only will you read to a dedicated audience of book lovers hungry for new reads, but you'll also get the chance to share your unique perspective, connect with readers on a personal level and build valuable relationships within the literary community. So, whether you're a debut author or a seasoned pro, this is your platform to showcase your work, expand your audience and leave a lasting impression. Don't miss out on this credible opportunity to elevate your book and connect with readers who are eager to discover new stories. I'm interviewing a new friend that I just met through Facebook. I am so thankful for Facebook and I know my new friend is too.

Cindy Hyde:

She wrote a book called Freedom. Now y'all know that I wrote Making Peace with your Past, so the whole healing emotional healing and being made whole and being set free is my passion. So when I saw her book on the internet it's the name of the book is Freedom the Healing Process for Traumatic Events in your Past, by Phyllis Ann Oleroo, and she says that only someone truly free can free someone else. So welcome to the program, ms Phyllis. I'm excited to hear about your book. I want you to tell us a little bit about who you are.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I am. Yeah, I'm just a little bit of a fan of yours. Who are you? I don't know. I tell a lot of people I'm just a red-haired with blue eyes and tans really well. Or I'll say I'm just a country girl with a degree. I don't know. All of that works Actually. I'm just a lover of my savior. This is what.

Cindy Hyde:

I am.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Everybody wants to know. Yes, I'm licensed and ordained and all that.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

And you're an evangelist yes, and what do you basically do? Like, for instance, whenever you message to me, I'm just like, okay, no big deal, because I had a piece about it, god knows. There was a time when God told me to do something and I didn't do it, and for 20 years it haunted me. He wanted me to tell this girl that was coming to me, that lived here in Nekidojus, that I'd known all my life or not known but seen and she had what you would call a palsy to arm.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I'm at trade days and I see her. She's coming towards me. I'm coming towards her. I mean we're going to run into each other if we don't. You know, one of us move. God says tell her I want to heal her arm. She's coming and I'm coming. I just walked right past her, went over and grabbed a pole and tried not to throw up. I cried and cried and cried because I just I didn't do it, tried to find her, have not seen her sin. Wow, have not seen her sins. And so every time God tells me to do something, he knows I'm going to do it, I don't care how crazy it sounds. Everybody else Did he give you a do over.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I think I saw her a couple of years ago. I'm not even sure it was her. If it was her, someone else did what God told me to do.

Cindy Hyde:

That's the good thing about that Even when we're disobedient, god will still do what he does for them, regardless. Exactly, I mean.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I miss that blessing, yes, and learned from it.

Cindy Hyde:

Disobedience too. Exactly, I understand exactly how you feel. There was a man in a grocery store one time and the bottom parts of his legs, from his knees down, were bowed out like severely bowed out, and he said you go, lay hands on him and tell him to be healed in Jesus' name. I walked around that man, I spoke to him. I was walking down the other aisle, I could not do it there.

Cindy Hyde:

He comes down the other aisle and God was trying to say you know, okay, I've brought here, still cannot do it, left the grocery store, set him a car and cried, like you just described, because I had failed God again. But he gave me a do over. I couldn't do it the next time and I'm arguing with God Well, what if he doesn't get healed? You know what he said to me. What difference does that make to you? Amen. We're just a conduit. We're supposed to be obedient. That's our job is to be obedient and do whatever he tells us to do, no matter how crazy. I mean, it's not our responsibility Whether they get healed or not.

Cindy Hyde:

Why would he say something like that if he did not intend to heal them? We know from experience both of us do that he doesn't reveal something that he's not ready to heal.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I tell him, I tell my nephew, I tell everyone really, but my nephew can't stand here and I'll say we're just pvc pipe brother.

Cindy Hyde:

I use the analogy of an extension cord. So yes, he doesn't.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

He does not need me, he just needs to be able to flow through me. He doesn't need any of my junk clogging it up. All my issues messing it up, none of my things right, just needs a clean pvc pipe to flow. He's like I just don't like being called pvc, so how does it?

Cindy Hyde:

feel to be an author. I still haven't come to grips with it. Really, it's kind of weird, isn't it?

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Yeah, it's more of a Umbled and honored, that God would give me the privilege me, I mean. If you read the book, you know what I've been through but he would be able to use me and um, there's that pvc pipe again exactly.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I mean, I tell you I don't feel. I don't feel any different, I'm not. It's weird for people to Come up and say, oh, I want your book. Will you say my very best, closest friends, that it went through some of this with me, know all of my story. Will you come sign my book, take a picture with me and sign my book and look because you Will.

Cindy Hyde:

You have a call for something. It is an accomplishment to sit down and make that happen. How many pages is your book? 204, 204?.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Got pictures and places in the back to you know a little Survey.

Cindy Hyde:

I did read all that part. That was that was really good that you can get the feedback from the people that read it.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I just want to try to stay on target with with what we're doing and making sure the right people are getting the book and so you've had some things happen Mm-hmm in your life, and that's why you wrote the book about freedom, because you needed freedom for your own self and found it in your Healing journey, and now you share in your book how to be free Exactly the steps that you need to take.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

To the steps that God took me through. I didn't realize at the time he was taking me through them. But me, what took me two decades, two decades of being hard at it? Usually what took me two decades? Someone can take and I don't want to. I don't never want anyone to go through the book quickly, but at your own pace. Some people Preferably not two decades.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

No, not two decades, but they could definitely, in two weeks at the most, um Be free from their past, free from the control, free from the. I can't go down this road anymore Because so-and-so lives there or this happened there, and the smell of coke icers.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Right, the smell of coke, I see, you know, drives me crazy. Or I can't do this or I can't talk to so-and-so I'm not. I will never drive through that town again, those things that control you. You know, dropping kids off at school one day and you're fine, and then two seconds down the road you hear a song or you see somebody in a yellow jacket and boom, you're crazy. That kind of being free from those things.

Cindy Hyde:

So who? Who did you write the book for? Who's your audience?

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Pretty much everyone. Everyone has had traumatic events in their past, whether it's um, in my case, rape or abortions. Um, I actually had some physical and verbal abuse as well. Uh, I just focused on the Well, I'll back up for the audience when I was 18. Well, actually started when I was 17. I was a senior in high school, a virgin. Uh, I was raped, got pregnant, had abortion. Then, about two months later, I was raped, got pregnant, had abortion all in an eight month time frame, and I was. A lot of times when bad things happen to people, they say you're not living, you must not have been living right or something.

Cindy Hyde:

No, I was serving God.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I didn't cuss, I didn't drink, I was in church. Every time the doors were open, I created events, you know, at church just to actually I had a home life or, uh, had alcoholic parents that fought all the time.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

So anytime I could be out of the house, I was happy. Yeah, so, um, that's that's where I come from and I use that Point as to that instance that happened to me to go through the steps. I refer back to it in each step. How, in this part of my life, this area, this is where, when the guy did this, or when this happened, or I would have not marriage over abortions. You know, and I hate to reveal too much, but there's a part where I I couldn't eat for two weeks because the devil would tell me that I was eating my babies. Oh, this is ten years, ten years. Oh, I was torment, I had not mirrors.

Cindy Hyde:

But you know a lot of people with PTSD Who've been traumatized and have those symptoms. Not marriage is one of them.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Yeah, oh yeah, I had not mirrors. There was physical Um, but I literally could not eat or drink anything. I would try if I, if it was liquid or soft. If it was liquid, I was drinking my babies blood or bodily fluids. If it was Soft like mashed potatoes, then that was my baby's tissue. If it was crunchy, I was eating but the baby's bones. So I mean I literally could not Eat for two weeks. My parents had no idea, my friends hardly had. I mean there's two people I think that knew what was going on as far as having the abortions. Maybe two people knew about the rapes that I told. Now the rapes. Usually no one tells those things.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

But, the abortions. You know those are Things that people talk about and you know gossip about in small towns where I was raised a few miles down the road here, and so a lot of people knew about the abortions but didn't know about the rapes. And when you go through those things it literally will take you I mean it will take your life if you let it. I Agree it tried to.

Cindy Hyde:

I was suicidal so many times I couldn't even try it so many different ways and you shared with me when we visited the other day about how, when we go through something like that the need to dull that pain, to erase that memory the self-medicated go there. Yeah.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

There was a point, like I said, this was my senior year. I didn't drink, I didn't do anything. I was good at two shoes. However, after this, I began. My parents were alcoholics. I began to, like my friends would. They would come pick me up from somewhere, from home or after school, and my first words were to them would be let's go get drunk. It was never let's go get it something to drink. Anything else it was let's go get drunk, because that's all I wanted to do was to dull the pain, not even think about it, not have anything.

Cindy Hyde:

You know, so you weren't drinking Like social drinking or drinking just to kind of take that you had the intention Of getting drunk to escape my head big difference doesn't it, oh yeah and escape is such a big issue too.

Cindy Hyde:

We're gonna take a break real quick and we'll be right back. Get a pause so I can find it pretty easily. Well, thank you for staying with us. I'm with evangelists. Phil is a little roux and her book freedom the healing process for traumatic events in your life. We've talked a little bit about who you are, who you wrote the book for, why you wrote the book. Now let's talk a little more about the process, the healing process itself.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Okay, as I was telling you the other day, it all began with the Facebook post of a friend of mine and I ended up ministering to a lady who had had an abortion. Two hours on Facebook ministering to her, and I thought to myself Lord, I could see that being a good, this Facebook being a good medium. Didn't look what I'm telling you I love Facebook. Facebook is a so it has its issues, has its moments, but if you use it the right way, everything with moderation.

Cindy Hyde:

Exactly the intention of the heart is what makes a big difference too. Oh yeah what are you doing on Facebook? My's a minister page right and to keep up with family and friends too.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

But okay, so, okay, so I minister to her and then I thought okay, lord, I can see this being a good medium to reach out to people who've had abortions.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Because, that's not something that anyone ever talks about. There's nothing, it's just mostly condemnation. But I spoke to the lady. I was telling you there's forgiveness, there's freedom, there's healing from all that. You know the guilt and the shame and all that. You don't have to, you don't have to go through that and.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

But I didn't want to start immediately because I had an event with some old high school friends Two weeks down the road and I didn't want to make it awkward for them. I wanted, I didn't want them to wonder who should I mention something to fill us about the abortion that I knew, or I Didn't know, or you know, whatever. So I'm like, no, we'll just wait till after that event and then you know, I'll minister. Well, that was on a Tuesday, wednesday night. God, I'm sitting there, mind of my business. We had praise and worship and Sitting there listening to the sermon and God says not only will you not wait To, you know, begin this, you're also going to.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I'm gonna have you do a complete conference and it's not gonna be just about abortion, it's gonna be about molestation, it's gonna be about physical abuse, it's gonna be about sexual abuse, it's gonna be about all these things and you're gonna have it. It's gonna be on start on a Friday night and you're gonna do it all day Saturday. Saturday morning all the way to Saturday night. You're gonna have this person speak and that speak and everything right there. And While I'm sitting there on the pew listening to the preacher or trying to listen to the preacher and Anyway, he told me all these things that you know how it was gonna be done.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

But I'm sitting here like, okay, what are we gonna say for 13 hours? What are we gonna talk about? You know and he just started revealing to me that the healing process you've heard of the stages of grief that anytime we go through any traumatic event like this, if it's a divorce, if it's a miscarriage, if it's combat, go through combat. Even moving can be a source of loss. There's so many different things and, of course, abortion and rape and being adopted and all these things. You know, being raised in an abusive home, you may not be abused, you may not get hit, you may not get verbally abused, but you're watching your parents and you're watching this from a distance. Hopefully.

Cindy Hyde:

Still dysfunctional.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Right those things. That is a loss. And we do go through the grieving process. It may take us 10 minutes, it may take us 10 years or, in my case, 20 years. And so he showed me that those stages of grief you go through the anger and the denial, and all this, the isolation.

Cindy Hyde:

Go ahead and tell them what they are in case they don't know. Okay, because somebody might be stuck in one of them.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I have a friend who bought the book. She lives in Colorado and her son died, passed away a couple of months ago, I think, and I messaged her, I texted her and she's like Phyllis, I'm going through the anger process right now. I'm so angry, I'm so mad, absolutely.

Cindy Hyde:

And.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I said I understand, that's okay. It's okay to be angry. I said just try not to hurt anybody, Right.

Cindy Hyde:

You said it.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I mean honestly, just try not to hurt anyone verbally, you know, or physically, or what she said. My husband let me hit him last night and I hit him hard, phyllis, I hit him real hard. I understand that's okay and tell him thank you for me, you know. But we go through the stages we go through. First of all you're in shock, Like oh my gosh, I can't believe that. You'll go through denial, like that can't be true. You know, this is not really happening to me. This, what are you talking about? This is not me. Then you go through anger. You can't believe it. You're still kind of in shock. You're still kind of sometimes these things will run together, brush right up to each other and sometimes intermingle.

Cindy Hyde:

I was going to say, you can't really tell sometimes where one begins and the other stops and sometimes we can be in multiple stages of grief at the same time, because you might be going through something you know, say like one of your parents died and then you know you might get fired or you might go be going through divorce and you know, one of your kids has a traumatic event, or I mean there's all these things that it lots of reasons to go, and that's exactly what we talk about in the book too.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

It's it's at all kind of intermingles, but at some point in the grieving process you will go through all these stages. It's healthy. It's healthy for you to do it. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to want to be alone. Sometimes, a lot of times. I believe that the devil likes to isolate us so that it's only his voice, that's the fourth stage isn't it.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Yes. The fourth stage is isolation. That's where you become suicidal. If you're not careful you go through depression. That's when a lot of people start self-medicating. So when a lot of people get on there, the prescription drugs that they become addicted to never get healed or free from. And then the final stage, what Elizabeth Kubler Ross had as the fifth stage of the grieving process is acceptance. And when God showed me that we were going through this and he showed me that acceptance was never really part of his plan, he never planned or wanted wants us to accept what happened. He wants us healed and free. That's right.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Free from those things, free from those nightmares, free from the shame, the guilt, the condemnation, all of that, all of the self-hate. He wants us free from that. And so then that's when he would kind of pick up the next stages that we go through in the book as to how he gave it to me, the stages I went through, how I dealt with it and some totally different things that came way off and left field from God, some neat ways that he used to talk about forgiveness and talk about the walls that we put up to protect ourselves supposedly, and all the different things, the stages, and it's. It's amazing. At the end it is so Right now an ex could call me and say something and upset me, but I have been free for just long enough that there is no way in the world that I would allow that.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

In my book I call it we have to become master forgivers. We have to become forgiving masters. We have to learn to forgive quickly, instantly, forgive as quick as we can. That's right. Forgive completely and forgive often, completely. Forgive, let it go completely. And what happens if we don't? That person that I never want to be again, I will never. There's no single person or thing on this planet that is worth my heart, living in the dungeon that it once lived in.

Cindy Hyde:

that's a word and you know the scripture just flat-out says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. That's the main reason. Yeah, but the benefits of forgiveness or what we discussed, that we discussed out there all that.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

When you forgive, you open yourself up to God, because when we are angry with God or with someone else, we have something against someone else. That's disobedience and that's a sin. It is and so we will.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Sin separates us from God and when we, when we are not forgiving someone else, we aren't able to open ourselves or to remain open to hear God, to heal ourselves. When we need God, when we need Forgiveness, when we need peace or direction or guidance, we can't hear it because we've blocked it, because we have unforgiveness. And then we have the yucky bitterness and the anger, and you know it's not just what somebody else has done to us.

Cindy Hyde:

It's a lot of times what we've done to ourselves, and it's sometimes what we think God has done exactly, and we blame him and so we get mad at God and Forgiving God to him and you know, we don't forgive ourselves.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

You know, I know that.

Cindy Hyde:

There were things in my life that I have done that I could not forgive myself for, and the enemy had me thoroughly convinced that because I knew what I did was wrong when I did it, I couldn't be forgiven. Wow, how many people actually believe that lie. It is a lie because there's not anything Except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that God will not and cannot forgive. Amen and God. I want you to know people, god is not mad at you, amen. He's not mad at you, he loves you, amen.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

So go on, miss Phyllis, and Phyllis, you're fine, I'm all you're preach. A part of what the book says there.

Cindy Hyde:

We're just kindred spirits and I knew when I even saw the book and I've started reading it, I wanted to finish it by the time you came in. So I'll just have to have you back and we'll just have to discuss different parts of it and maybe we can put it into a series or something and have it available for people as a companion, even maybe to the book.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Working on a companion, a 90 day companion devotional. Well, that's awesome.

Cindy Hyde:

Let us know when that comes out. So you wrote the book, you did the conference. The conference was the time and the moment.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Did the conference, first did the conference, then after the conference. When I'm kind of detoxing from the conference, you know it was so just heavy in a good way and a bad way to physically draining.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Then God tells me he wants me to write a book about the process he gave me and I kind of ignore the whole book part and I'm like what process? Because I did not realize, as he was giving me setting up this person to speak on forgiveness, forgiveness of others, this person to speak on forgiveness of self and God, this person to speak on walls this part, you know different things and I didn't realize that it was actual steps and stages of a process that he gave me for freedom.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

I did not I just knew that these were things that I went through and I needed to share it.

Cindy Hyde:

I need to get the book and just read it, and not just read it, but do it, and I was the do the activities.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

They are easy, easy, easy, simple, quick, easy to do activities, but they are so crucial, vital to your healing If you don't do the activities. I had one girl tell me she tried to commit suicide one of my team members. She called me from the hospital and said that you know, because I do HR. She is calling and saying where she was and what had happened and all these things. And later we discussed the book. She brought up the book and of course I just gave it to her and this been a few months ago, and she said she is actually going through detox right now and not detox, rehab and detoxing. And I said you know it might be a good time now for you to, because you know you may want the book and you know you need the book, but when your spirit may not be ready yet, the event may be too close, you know you still have to go through the stages and when you are going through the first three or four stages, you are not really ready for the good part.

Cindy Hyde:

For that part that brings the freedom. So, you have just a few minutes. What in parting words do you have to somebody that has been listening about your book? Where can they find your book?

Phyllis Ann Larue:

They can go to Amazoncom and just put in Phyllis, larue and Freedom in the search area there. I also. I mean I can usually carry a few, I need to order some, but right now that's just on Amazon and you can go to my Facebook page, I have a Facebook page, I have Instagram, I have Twitter and that's pretty much it. I did have a website, but we are still kind of working on making some adjustments to it.

Cindy Hyde:

So it's Phyllis P-H-Y-L-L-I-S.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

LaRue.

Cindy Hyde:

L-A R-U-E. Well, I certainly appreciate you being on the program with me today. Those that are listening, who have experienced trauma, let's say a prayer for them. Exactly, I was thinking the same thing, let's just leave them with that, and I'll let you do that.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

Okay, thank you, heavenly Father. We just come to you, lord, we just thank you and we praise you for who you are. We thank you for that. You're not standing up there with a baseball bat mad at us. We thank you that you are a loving God who sent His only Son to forgive us of every single sin, no matter what it was. You have forgiven us and you have given us the opportunity to be free. Right now, I speak to every person listening. Right now, I just place a hedge of protection around them, lord, until they are able to get free. Lord, no matter what they've been going through, no matter how long it's been, lord, right now I speak to them and I say God loves you.

Cindy Hyde:

Yes, he loves you.

Phyllis Ann Larue:

There is nothing in your past that he cannot love, heal and free you from. There is nothing too bad, too deep, too intense that he cannot handle and cannot turn around and make it a wonderful memory that can change someone else's life. Don't ever think that You've gone through something in vain. God will use every single broken piece to make the exact, perfect masterpiece that he created you to be Lord. We thank you for all these things. We thank you for everyone listening. Thank you for Miss Cindy and her ministry. We ask you just to bless it and continue to bring people in Lord. We thank you for souls being saved In Jesus' name, amen.

Cindy Hyde:

Yes, and thank you, Miss Phyllis. We bless you and thank you for being on the show, thank you for writing the book, thank you for finding your way so that you can lead other people into that path of freedom too, because it is important.

Cindy Hyde:

God wants you free, amen. So start working on that freedom today. Woo-hoo, yeah, thank you for listening. That wraps up today's episode of the Promote your Book podcast with me, cindy Hyde, your host and author. Thank you for joining us on this literary journey. Are you an author eager to share your story with our audience? Let's go do your own author interview with me by visiting our website. And don't forget to check out our powerful book, external Scars from Internal Wounds, available on Amazon. It's not just a book, it's a great resource for suicide prevention. Find the link in the episode description. Until next time, keep writing and keep reading and keep telling stories.